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Talk:Viewtiful Joe
Agreed.Akay420:41, February 26, 2012 (UTC) Merge Carnival here Maybe we should merge Carnival into this article? It seems that a lot of people want to keep it, even though the vast majority of its significance comes from a non-DMC game. Giving it its own section here ought to solve the problem. --Anobi 08:18, February 28, 2012 (UTC) * I disagree with merging it with the VJ page. Having played both DMC1 and the Dante version of VJ to death, it's equally relevant to both in terms of gameplay. I also disagree with deleting the page entirely since it has had several appearances. If all there were to it was the escape segment in DMC1 then it wouldn't be any more relevant than the motorcycle or missile Bayonetta rode in her game. But since Kamiya gave it a name (and can someone source the spelling "Carnival" please?) and included it in his DMC/VJ "expanded universe" I think it warrants its own page. There's far less to be said about the Bangle of Time (it looks like this, it slows down time, it appears in the first game and "Viewtiful Joe") and it has a page. --Boradis 21:14, March 1, 2012 (UTC) :*I'm afraid I still have to disagree with you about the importance of it. C/Karnival was literally a background object for the majority of DMC. It was then used as a Deus Ex Machina to get off the sinking island because the load-bearing boss was destroyed. VJ is non-canon, and that is where the plane is named. Over half of C/Karnival's article is about it's role in VJ. C/Karnival has not appeared in any further DMC games. Even things that happen in the DMC3 manga are arguably non-canon, and that's an actual DMC media piece. I really do appreciate your input, though. It's nice to get other perspectives on a subject. --Anobi 05:57, March 2, 2012 (UTC) :*I've expanded the article to include more information from DMC1. That "over half" information was added by me in the last couple of days in no particular order, with the VJ stuff coming first simply because I had some screenshots for that on hand. "Canon" in the DMC franchise is loose at best and utterly undefined at worst, so if something appears in an official product it would seem this wiki is a good place to list it. As far as relevance goes, does the Needlegun -- unnamed (unlike Ebony & Ivory, Spiral, or Nightmare-β), which appeared in only one game, was featured in no cutscenes, visible only in the item screen, yet still crucial to gameplay -- deserve a page? I know that's not a rationale for keeping another page, but I'd like to know what the standards are here. I'm used to editing on Wikipedia (where I'm a founding member of the Devil May Cry task force) where everything needs real-world relevance. I was under the impression that a Wikia wiki could be as detailed and "granular" as fans felt like getting. Karnival gets a good deal of screentime -- first as a background piece of foreshadowing, then as a literal vehicle for the game's climactic escape, then in a lengthy cutscene at the end -- and was deemed relevant enough by Kamiya to keep it part of Dante's arsenal in the character's subsequent appearances which he directed. But if the page must be merged, it should be merged into a DMC1 weapons and/or items page. Its VJ appearances are secondary. --Boradis 18:45, March 2, 2012 (UTC) :*If you can show me any reference in any Devil May Cry game where C/Karnival is named, then I will agree to keeping it as it is. However, as it stands now, even the plane's name is non-canon. Dante also has a car that he uses extensively in the anime, and both Trish and Lady ride motorcycles, but none of them are given their own pages. I suggested an article for all vehicles in DMC, but another admin was against the idea, so it never went into production. By contrast, the Needlegun (like the Bangle of Time mentioned earlier) is a named weapon, as shown to the right. It is a weapon, and it does appear in the game, therefore it has its own page. I would like to see all Key Items have their own pages, but that's a project for another time. Perhaps we can compromise here and keep the article, but list C/Karnival as part of the Viewtiful Joe saga, just like Blade Master Alastor? I'll even put a bullet point in Dante's Trivia section about how he can fly planes, with a link to C/Karnival. --Anobi 04:44, March 3, 2012 (UTC)